When Faith Comes, I Know has arrived part 2 by Pastor Don Moore plus quotes from discipleship manual

Thursday, August 07, 2008

When Faith Comes, I Know Has Arrived Part 2 by Pastor Don

Part one of this study can be found here.

After our break, Pastor Don took us to Page 122 of our Discipleship Manual.

     “This section deals with a deeper understanding of what “Faith” is.  The definition of Faith is found in Hebrews 11:1, but we still get hope, believing, and Faith mixed up.  Are they the same?  How much Faith is enough Faith?  When do we have Faith?  These questions will be addressed in the following paragraphs.
     For starters, let us think of hope and believing as prerequisites to Faith, a doorway to Faith.  To help our discussion, remember hope is associated with expectancy, therefore, a process, a progression toward Faith.  Believing is a process, a progression toward Faith and is opposed by unbelief.  Faith is in opposition to doubt – Faith is the “I know“, doubt is the “I don’t know” and “I don’t think so.”  When “I know” is present, believing for has been replaced.  Faith is substance and evidence of what’s hoped and believed.  Therefore – I know.  Or as some say, “I know (Faith) I have what I was hoping and believing for.  Let’s explore this further so we can move as effective disciples toward true Faith.”

Hope and believing are prerequisites for faith.  Believing for something is not faith. Hebrews 11:1 says, “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” NOW – not the future. If we are believing for something to happen in the future, we are not having faith in the NOW.  Believing for is a prerequisite to faith, we have to start somewhere.  When I have absolute, total faith, we know we have – even if the circumstances are not demonstrating that fact yet.

Why are there not more miracles in the church?  It is because people are thinking believing for and hoping for is faith.  They feel that until they see the substance of what they are believing for, that they can’t have faith for it. But once we have the substance of what we are hoping for, then we do not have to believe in faith for it, because we have it.

God hears us and His answers are “Yes and Amen.” We can stand in a room and look at a light bulb and hope and believe that the light will come on, but the light won’t come on until we go over to the switch and flick the switch on.

It is not difficult to become born again and know you are going to Heaven, to have faith that salvation is possible.  Yet that is a great miracle of God.  Faith for healing or anything we need is no greater miracle than that of salvation, yet so many in the church stop at salvation.

The problem is that Church folk are not honest.  They say that they were in faith for something but it didn’t happen. The truth was they were not in faith, if they were in faith it would have happened.  They were really in the stage of believing and hoping for. If it was true faith, it would have had to happen.

I am believing for my healing is different from I KNOW that I am healed.  If we are praying for healing and it isn’t happening, be honest.  Admit that we must have missed it.  I was believing that the condition was gone, is different from I know it’s gone.  It may take months or more for the flesh to demonstrate the healing, but the healing HAS ALREADY HAPPENED.

Pastor Don talked to us about a wart that had grown on his face. He went to a dermatologist and the dermatologist told him that he would have to freeze the wart off.  Pastor Don held off on that for he had a conference to go to, and decided he would pray the wart off.  He prayed, and waited. He had the hope and desire that the wart would be removed, but it was still there.  He looked at his life to see if there were hidden sins that needed to be addressed, he was in faith, but God did not seem to answer his prayer.  He thought to himself, perhaps he didn’t pray and fast enough or had an evil thought, so he didn’t get healed.  He said, “maybe it’s my wife’s fault…”  But he was mature enough to realize that I KNOW wasn’t there.  I didn’t have I KNOW FAITH to say I KNOW IT’S GONE. He said over and over the passage, “By His stripes I am healed.  I believe I receive my healing.”  Said it over and over and over, filling his mind with the truth of God.  At some point when we speak the truth of God, we know I KNOW drops in.  At one point he knew that in three days the wart would be gone.  Gave it no other thought, and sure enough brushed his nose with the back of his hand three days later and the wart fell off into his hand.

Sometimes when we pray we feel the thing leaving our body right now, sometimes we know it will happen later, sometimes it takes longer.  Faith is an action.  The Word came up in the Spirit, and the Spirit received the Word.  Pastor Don knew in his Spirit that in three days the wart would be gone.  He had no doubt in his mind.  Made the statement of faith, and it happened.  When the third day came, he knew it was gone, did not even look in the mirror to see if it was there or not, just trusted in I KNOW FAITH.

We have to be honest and locate ourselves, to find out where we are – are we in hope, believing for, or faith?  The Holy Spirit is aware when we say we are in faith and we are not.  Pride cannot have a part in this.  When we think we can do this in our own strength we are in error.  We start thinking I am so good, or I’ll bargain with God that if He heals me I will give God the glory.  God will get the glory whether we are healed, dead, or resurrected. 

We do well to stay humble.  To realize that God loves me, I love God and His Word.  And He will do His Word at the right time, and I will wait for God. We are to do for God from love and because we should, and God will get the glory.

We wonder why faith manifests for some but not for others, but we don’t always know the whole story.  Four percent of the people keep hoping.  People pray for a manifestation but they don’t keep the faith when it doesn’t happen quick enough, they move from faith to doubt and unbelief.

When Jesus healed the person with the withered hand, the person had to have the faith to stretch forth their hand.  They happened to be at the temple.  When the person stretched forth their hand, their faith entered in the picture.  The guy knew that this was Jesus, and obeyed, did not think that it was the Sabbath, or I have to believe for this Healing. He knew that when Jesus said stretch forth your hand, his hand would be healed.  Jesus says I KNOW, all I need is for you to get a hold of faith.  To go from the progression of believing for to I KNOW.  The man with the son told Jesus, “I believe, help my unbelief.”  He was believing for and hoping for, but was not in faith. 

Obedience is necessary, the man had to obey and stretch forth his hand, the paralyzed man had to pick up his bed and walk.  When faith is present I KNOW is present, and then we have to tell the truth.

Not everyone in the prayer line wants to be healed.  Pastor Don shared about a man who wanted relief from pain, but knew that if he was healed, he would then lose his insurance payments, so he did not want healing.  Some like the attention that their sickness gives them. 

How do we know the will of God?  Some say that “if it is God’s will, I will be healed.”  It is always God’s will that we are healed.  The Word of God tells us His will.  We need to adjust our statements and what we are thinking and saying to line up with His Word.  His Will.  God gave us His Word so that we will know His Will.  He has given us His Will – therefore we can know His Will.

We have His Will, some circumstances are hidden from us and we don’t have His specific will at the specific moment.  We believe certain scriptures’ interpretations, but the interpretations are in error.  For example, people use the following passage to say that we can’t know God’s will, but that is not true – we have His Word and with His Word we can know God’s will Isaiah 55:8-9 For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways,” says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.

We need to take this passage and study it in context.  Who is talking, who is he talking to, and what are they talking about?  We can understand the verse in context if we look at Isaiah 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, and He will have mercy on him; and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon.

Verse 8 and 9 are in reference to the wicked and unrighteous who cannot know God’s ways and God’s will, for they are not in Him.

Then we looked back at Isaiah 55:6-7  Seek the LORD while He may be found, call upon Him while He is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, and He will have mercy on him; and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon.

We are told to seek the Lord, let the wicked forsake their ways.

Isaiah 55:3-5 Incline your ear, and come to Me. Hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you— The sure mercies of David. Indeed I have given him as a witness to the people, a leader and commander for the people. Surely you shall call a nation you do not know, and nations who do not know you shall run to you,  because of the LORD your God, and the Holy One of Israel; for He has glorified you.”

This is also a passage about us. David and his everlasting covenant, the gentiles and saints in the future, a nation not called a nation.  If our first allegiance is to USA, instead of God, we are in trouble.  Jesus is our king.  We are members of the Kingdom of God, and the Head is Jesus.  Our priorities should be God first, USA second.  Remember Jesus said, “My Kingdom is not of this earth.”  We have our allegiance to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Who is he talking to?

Isaiah 55:1-3 “Ho! Everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and you who have no money, come, buy and eat. Yes, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. Why do you spend money for what is not bread, and your wages for what does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good, and let your soul delight itself in abundance. Incline your ear, and come to Me. Hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you— the sure mercies of David.

God has His Kingdom, and His covenant.  David was an example, but this is written to those who are hungry and thirsty and want to come to God, not the wicked and unrighteous. Like David, those who hunger and thirst for God can know God’s ways and thoughts.  God’s Will is that you prosper, by faith the gold will emerge, once the dross has been burned off.  We can know His will.

Wait on the Lord and He will reveal His thoughts and ways if we come to Him.  God will interrupt our thoughts that are in error, He will strengthen us, He will lead us by the Spirit, and we need faith to believe that.  Faith is not wishing and hoping, it is I KNOW THAT I KNOW THAT I KNOW. 

We don’t know what God knows, but we have access to it. We can hear His voice and trust His judgment.  Just because it is hard doesn’t mean it isn’t God. His thoughts are not our thoughts.

Isaiah 55:10-13 For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven, and do not return there, but water the earth, and make it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower and bread to the eater, so shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; it shall not return to Me void, but it shall accomplish what I please, and it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it. For you shall go out with joy, and be led out with peace; the mountains and the hills shall break forth into singing before you, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. Instead of the thorn shall come up the cypress tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree; and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.

When we get in faith, believe, and know that He made a covenant with us.  The wicked cannot know God’s ways or will.  But by FAITH WE CAN KNOW.

Faith works when we trust God.  If there is something about us that is not pleasing to God we want to abandon it, and be obedient to God.  Believe HE IS.

We want to take our thoughts and capture them and make them obedient to Jesus, to have the Mind of Christ.  The catch phrase WWJD (What Would Jesus Do?) is a good one to consider.

We want the words we speak to come forth from Heaven, through His Spirit and register in our head, so that we are operating out of the Mind of Christ.  He wants us to know His thoughts.

We then looked at PP 124 in the Discipleship Manual.

     “Believing is what we do when we hopeFaith is what we do when we know.  Let me say it again.  Believing is what we do when we hope. Faith is what we do when we know.  Now, the benefit of believing and hoping is that we arrive at Faith.  The benefit of Faith is knowing and causing to come into material reality.  Believing is hoping, Faith is knowing. You either know or you don’t know because the knowing is seeing.  Faith is the factual representation of that which is not yet, to your physical eye, a fact, but you know it as a fact. You know that you know that you know that you know, and ‘you know’ is better than and beyond belief. 
     Believing is the road that leads to knowing.  When you get to the knowing, you have seen, whether or not with the physical reality, but the spiritual reality is as real to you.  You can’t get any more Faith, but there always is more believing. We believe and believe until that thing we hope for has substance.  Once the thing that we hope for has substance, it thus then becomes knowing.  Now, once it becomes knowing, it is not believing any more.  When I came up from under the table (Heather’s comment: illustration of hiding under the table and Pastor Don asking if we could believe he was under the table when we couldn’t see him) your believing stopped. You were not believing for it, you knew it.

**Blessed is he that comes from believing
and gets to the knowing- before he gets to the 
**Anybody can have Faith once they see it,
but seeing it and knowing is 
not Faith –
Faith is knowing before you see.”    

  pp. 124  “Where does that knowing come from?  The knowing comes from hoping and believing.  A Faith comes to the heart.  You don’t know it in your head, but you know it in your heart.  If I can get people to stay at hope, believing and confessing long enough, they’ll get to Faith and the knowing.   Once they get to there, they’ve got the knowing and then it’s just a matter of time before the seeing comes.  Sometimes the seeing is instant.  In the spiritual realm, it’s instant because you have the knowing.  It’s in here and you say, “I see it. I have it, now!!!”

We need to work this until it becomes our reality.

(Heather’s comment) This was an intense Bible study, with much to think about. I know that there are areas where I am in faith, and other areas where I am believing and hoping.  As I continue to walk with God, it seems that I get closer and closer to faith in those areas.  I sure am glad God loves us enough to help us grow in faith.

Have a blessed day,



About Heather Marsten

Welcome to Heather's Blog. I'm looking forward to meeting you and checking out your sites. I just moved about nine years of material over from another blog site, Xanga, who may close down mid-July. At first I was disappointed to make the move because I had a lifetime membership at Xanga and had to spend weeks transferring posts. But now I'm thrilled. Already I've met new bloggers and read many new websites. Blogging is a wonderful way to expand my horizons and garner new ideas. I'm a happily married mom of three young adults. My husband and I are proud to watch our children grow and venture out into the world. My daughter is still in college but my two sons have graduated. One has a job and the other just graduated and is in the process of finding a job in his field, physics. Anyone know of any jobs out there? I'm proud of our children and love watching them grow and mature. They've become fine, compassionate, and loving people. Empty nest? Nah, I'm too busy to let an empty nest bother me. Not enough hours in the day. My husband and I enjoy quiet time together and I have many interests to pursue - one of which is blogging :D I am a born-again believer and love God. As you read this blog, you will discover that Bible studies thrill me. There is so much wisdom contained between the covers of the Bible and I am fortunate to sit under the teachings of a remarkable pastor, Pastor Don Moore. Members of our church (Living Word Chapel in West Hurley, New York) are encouraged to teach and there are visiting pastors who stop by our church, I also study the Bible on my own and love sharing what I learn. One other passion is writing. My current work in process is a memoir. A scene from my memoir was published in a book called: Heavenly Company: Entertaining Angels Unaware - an anthology of angelic encounters compiled by Cecil Murphy. I'm hoping my memoir will encourage other survivors of abuse. I grew up in a home filled with abuse, including incest. For most of my life I was searching for something that would fill the void of not being loved by my parents. I tried many ways to find that love -- therapy, relationships, occult studies, and keeping my life so filled I had no way to think about my past. It was only when I discovered God that I was able to put the pieces of my life back together and walk forward in a joyous life. My nickname - wondering has changed from wondering where the heck God was in my life, to wondering what incredible adventure is going to happen next. I hope you enjoy my site. Please say hi, share some thoughts, and ask questions. I look forward to meeting you and checking out your sites. Have a blessed day. Heather
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