Who’s in control? Part 3 – questions from Bible study students – by Pastor Don Moore

Tuesday, February 12, 2008

Who’s in control, Part 3 by Pastor Don

Part 1 

Part 2

Pastor Don then was closing and people began asking questions. I couldn’t hear the questions, but the answers had so much meat in them that I wanted to share them with you.

Question

You can feel for somebody. She said you are healed and you know you are. And what I am saying is that your flesh man may never know that it is healed. But your spirit man knows that it is. If you don’t know how to get in touch with your spirit man, you’ll walk around in life continually fighting the same battles over and over again.

Another question

She said that’s why we have to stay in the Living Word. Because our carnal man will flip flop the spirit man. Do you follow me? What happens is, if we don’t understand that, when the stresses of life come upon us, and stress of life is always from time to time going to come, we need to know which reservoir are you drawing from and relying upon. Which reservoir are you drawing from? A lot of times we don’t know because we respond too quickly. The flesh is immediate. But the spirit takes a little bit longer because we have to make an effort to consult the spirit and plug into it. That’s why, we have to say, wait a minute. Why are the saints beating up on the saints? A lot of times it is because we are quick to respond from our emotional residue that is still left. That’s the way I’ve always been treated, and then boom. But when you come to church, most people don’t know where your damage lies. Most people don’t know, unless it comes up in counseling or coffee talk, most people don’t know how much you’ve been abused or stepped on or ignored.

One time, I came out of my office, I wasn’t thinking about anything except I wanted to get in the church and worship and get ready to give my message. I came down the stairs and I was really focused on thinking about the scriptures and thinking about what I’m going to say. The lobby was packed and as I’m walking through, I’m giving my courteous head shake to people. I got a phone call that week that I had ignored so and so and she was offended. I thought about that and I said, well I’ll make the effort. And I do. So I said, let me pray about it first and see. And as I prayed about it, I realized that there was no direct circumstance in which I had ignored her. I realized that she was in the lobby and I didn’t recognize her, I didn’t call her name. I didn’t address her. I didn’t do anything, I just went to where I was going and she took that as an offence. And then it all began reeling back. I thought of the songs that she used to like and sing, and the songs she always liked were what I call those put down gospel songs. “I ain’t nothing in the sight of God.” Those kinds of songs, self put down songs like, “I was garbage when Jesus met me and I’ll always be garbage but Jesus loves me anyway.” And I started flashing back and then I said, you know, I got it. I told my wife, we have to go over to so and so’s house. We went over to her house and in the process of it her whole history came out, that she was just so used to being abused, overlooked, and walked over. She was now at a place where she decided that anyone that does that to me, I’m going to get them. And so she was going to nail me for that, but the Holy Spirit just showed me, I’m not going to sign up for that. And I made it very clear to her that walking by you does not constitute an offense unless you are looking to be offended. Now where did that exist in her? That was in the emotional residue of the flesh.

If you can just get a vision of this thing, then you begin to realize that yes, everyone on the planet is multiple schizophrenic. You all have multiple personalities. We don’t want to believe it, but we do. You have one personality that you show one place one time, and then you’ll switch in another. You’ll get in a situation where the Holy Ghost is moving and then you’ll get another personality. You get in a place where there is no Holy Ghost and you get another one. And what that is sometimes is the different parts of the internal battle between the spirit mind and the flesh mind.

Look at Romans Chapter 12. We quote this all the time. And most of you can quote it from memory. If we go there, I’ll show you a couple of familiar verses that we just need to look at from this standpoint. (Italics is NKJV, plain script is Pastor Don’s comments as he read the passage)

Romans 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies(How come it says bodies? Do you see it? Why does it say bodies? Here’s how we read that. We read that you present yourself, that’s not what the apostle is saying. He is saying “present your bodies”) a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. (Well, what is he trying to get across to us? He’s saying, you have to die to the flesh. But what he really means is let’s take the fleshly body, the mind, will and emotions of the man and let’s kill that sucker. Let’s kill him. Well, how do you know I’m sure? Let’s look at the next verse.) And do not be conformed to this world, (Well what does he mean ‘conformed to this world?’ He means don’t allow your flesh man to dominate you to make you do what’s natural in the world for your flesh man to do. I’m getting to the place now that whenever I get an idea to do something, I’m beginning to question it. Somebody today brought me some cakes to eat and there were two pieces. The minute that I thought, man I’ll eat them both. I put them down and I questioned that. I said who’s saying that. I’m serious here. I played basketball today, I burned up enough calories. But who wants me to eat both pieces of that cake? In the small things we need to take stock about what’s being given to us that the world’s standard says. The world’s standard was saying, yeah man its good cake, eat it all. But I said no, let me think about that a minute. I am learning to stop and consider everything. And it only takes a split second, but generally we don’t. But in the realm of the emotions we really have got to take stock. When we are feeling something, we don’t need to move in action until we’ve really considered where’s that coming from? Is that the emotions of the spirit man or is that just me? So I rolled up the other piece and put it the drawer for the mice. Or I’ll give it to someone else.)

Someone asked if one were more powerful than the other? Pastor Don said, yes, I can prove it by Scripture. The Bible tells us that when we are born, when you come into life and you’re first born on planet Earth, the Bible says that when you enter into the fleshly body, you are without sin. You are born into this world and you are not accountable until you arrive at the age of accountability. It says in Romans 7:9, I was alive once but then I died. Well, when does it say I died? You died when you became aware of the law of right and wrong and you chose wrong – you died. Because, why? You then entered into sin. You became a partaker of the will to sin. So what was the condition before? You were alive. What does it mean that you were alive? It means that you were not dead in sin. No body in here is bound by the sin of Adam. You were born into a fallen state of sin, but you yourself have become holy and sanctified through the blood of Christ. So if you brought me back to the 1970’s and parked my butt in the Café Espresso. I’m alive now and you’d be taking me back to death. But when I’m standing in the Espresso now, am I guilty, no, because that guy died. When did he die? He died when I once again became alive to the Lord. When I cried out, “Lord save me,” what did He say? “No, maybe? “  No, He said “Yes” and his yes was permanently yes, because I wasn’t saved by my power. I was saved by the Spirit of God. I was born of the Spirit of God. Boy if the Church would just get that message out to people.

Question. The answer is this, when we’re first born the spirit is stronger, but the flesh as a child grows seeks to take dominance. The little kids here in church are noisy (there were little kids in the sanctuary during this Bible study), yes they are noisy, but there is no malice in their noise. They are not trying to interrupt. They have no plot and plan to disrupt the Bible service, they are pure and without sin. They are just little ids running around in their little egos. I want this, I want that. But there’s no malice in this. So what happens is, over time, getting a little older, the kid gets to the point of thinking if I disrupt this meeting I can get out of here. Mommy will take me home on time. Then the flesh in that child has gotten stronger. And what happens then is a process. As the flesh gets stronger the mind, will and emotions of the carnal man gets to a place of dominance, not always and not all the time. It’s just spurts. The reason is that the spirit of man is alive. The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord searching the inmost parts of his being. So what happens is God, by his Holy Spirit doesn’t let us go willy nilly totally.

Remember when Sister Ethel was giving her testimony? She was clearly saying to us, even though she let herself go, the prayer line from her mother and grandmother did not let her go. Now what’s that prayer line tied to? It was tied to her, there were moments of lucidity when she said, this is wrong, I’ve got to change, and I’ve got to stop this.

Pastor Don told us, I can remember one time coming up from New York City and I went to the rest area, and thinking to myself, my flesh was saying, what a drag God can see through buildings. Because what I was planning to do was illegal. I wished God wouldn’t see it but I was grown up enough in the Lord to know that if I was going to sin it had to be with full knowledge that I was going to sin with no excuses about it. Because why? I know God could see me doing it. Well what situation. My flesh was still dominating my spirit man, but my spirit man hadn’t given up on me. He was still in there talking.

Now here’s what I want to close with. It says in verse 2, and do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, (Well, he’s not talking about the mind of the spirit, he’s talking about being transformed in the mind of the flesh. The mind of your spirit will never miss it. Your spirit man is always thinking right thoughts. Everybody in here, when you have a decision to make between right and wrong you always know the right thing to do. That doesn’t mean that you are going to will to do it. But you know. And that’s why there’s always a debate. As a teenage boy I went to my dad and said Pops sometimes I have these decisions that come into my mind. And he says, what do you mean? And I said a lot of the guys I’m hanging with now are getting seriously heavy into drinking. And I have these decisions to make in places that they go and things that they do. I don’t know how to always make the right decision. And he said these words to me that were just so simple. You talk about the Gospel in action. He says, “Son, if you think you shouldn’t, don’t.” I said, “What?”  He said yeah, if you think you shouldn’t, if any doubt arises, don’t do it. He says, if God’s in it, He’ll give you another opportunity and he’ll override it if God really wants you to do it. But usually that’s your flesh giving you the quick fix, the right answer that is the wrong answer eventually. And the reason is, you can’t always know exactly in a moment what’s the right thing to do. But guess what, your spirit knows. Your inner man knows. I can prove it. Do you want me to prove it?

Every mother in here, you call it instinct and woman’s intuition, but every woman in here at different times has known that your kid’s in trouble. You didn’t know that in your mind, you were watching TV or washing dishes and something rose up inside of you and said you better go find the kid and see what he’s doing. Where did you know that? You didn’t know that in your intellect, you knew that in your spirit man. How many of us have gotten to a street corner and you were going to go through and something said, stop? And you stop and poof a truck goes by that could take you out. Well where did that exist? It existed in your spirit man. Your spirit man is plugged into the Spirit of God and has more information than you. It’s the same with investments and everything. So he says, “Don’t be conformed, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.” Your mind is where you must be renewed. We all think right thoughts and wrong thoughts and go back and forth. And he is saying get plugged into what your spirit man would do, and he says,) that you may prove (God knows that this is a test.) what is that good and acceptable and(and look at what it says, look at the next line.)  perfect will of God. In other words, how are you going to know the perfect will of God unless your spirit will, is getting the information from the Spirit realm. And see, when we say man is just a physical carnal will, mind, will and emotions, we’re really missing it. It’s really the will of the Spirit of the man that must dominate the will of the physical man and get in touch with him or else we are not going to be under control.

Question. Exactly. The first is we have to discern who’s talking to us. If I met you for the first time, what would be the first thing we would do? The first thing I would do is look at you. The second thing after looking at you is I would stop, and the third thing I would do, based upon looking and stopping, because if I didn’t stop, I would just walk over you, is that I then would act, reach out shake hands or give a hug or whatever. To live the Christian life is just a matter of learning to look and stop. It’s not that hard. It’s just that we don’t do it. We have to look and then stop. Take an assessment of what are we thinking, and do what it says in Corinthians, and you all know the scripture, “take your thoughts captive and making them obedient to Christ.” You know when Christians do that, when we’re in trouble. You know by that time it’s a little too late. It’s too late to take the thoughts captive. Well when do we do that? That should be after you look and stop and then you go, let me captivate this thing.

Everybody wants to be a prophet but they don’t do what a prophet has to do. A prophet cannot be swayed by what he sees. When a prophetic person walks up to you, when he’s looking at you, he’s not noticing your hair curls to determine whether you are rich or poor. He is trying to look into the spirit realm concerning you. He may not be physically seeing you. I’ve never seen a true prophet just run off at the mouth. I’ve seen true prophets just look, stop, boom, and then they will have something to say. Why? Because they are trying to hear from the spirit man in them. The carnal man is thinking, I’ve got to collect the offering, I’ve got to be nice to the pastor. I have 14 more people to pray with. Oh look, here come another 10 people who want a word of prophecy, the carnal man is thinking all that. My feet really hurt. I wonder if my wife has left already or is she waiting for me. Do I really want a cheeseburger or how many other cities do I have to go to? But the spirit of the prophet isn’t tired, distracted, bored. And that’s why you just have to marvel at truly spiritual people. Because they have to spend time discerning what’s going on. Looking, stopping, and seeing what’s really going on. What am I feeling? That desire to escape this room, what is that? And the truly emotional person says, “Get me out of here!” But the truly spiritual person asks why do I feel I want to get out of here? Check this out, and where in me is that?

It’s like meeting somebody for the first time and saying, “I don’t trust them.” Well where is it in you that you don’t trust them? If it’s you don’t trust them in your spirit, yes, you need to back out. But it might be, you don’t trust them in your mind, and that may be based on the fact that they look a certain way. That’s what racial prejudice is. Racial prejudice doesn’t occur in the spirit of man, it occurs in the physical, in the nature of the flesh of the man.

How do you do it? You just have to want to do it. You just have to want to be free of the forces in life that constantly own us. And then you will begin to get born again in certain areas of your life. For example, I play sports. In sports we have this thing called the zone. And the zone is a place where (and musicians have it, and I am sure women have it in different areas and I’ll think of an example) you have to shut down the fleshy mind and let the body operate. Let it do what it does. A golfer takes 1000 swings a day. Why does he do that? Because when he’s in a tournament he wants to automatically do it to get to a place that he’s in the zone, so when he swings the club he’s shut down his mind and body. He’s not thinking about his mind or body, he’s just swinging the club. What makes a Michael Jordan great is when he gets in the zone, he’s not thinking I’m going to go left or right and then I’m going to take two steps and then I’m going to dunk. No, no, he’s in the zone. When he’s in the zone he’s automatically just functioning. And believe it or not the spirit knows what to tell the person to do. A foul shot close to the end of a game, the game is on the line and there is no time left on the clock. He’s got to make these foul shots for the team to win. It’s at that moment he must shut down his mind. That’s why in sports they call a time out, to freeze the kicker. What do they want the kicker to do? To get into his mind. What does the kicker do? He goes off by himself. Why, so that he can stay out of his mind. Do you follow me?

I used to watch my grandmother cook. My grandmother was a great cook. When she was in the kitchen cooking, she’d be singing Christian songs and basically be throwing the food together. Grandma was in the zone and you’d say, “Grandma how do you make that?” And she’d go, “boy, don’t bother me.” How much sugar do you put in? Boy, don’t bother me. How much salt do you put in? I remember my mother asking Grandma how do you make that, and my mother would get frustrated because it almost felt like rejection because grandma’s answer was I don’t have a recipe, don’t know how to write down a recipe, I just know how to do this. Leave me alone and just let me do this. And it’s just getting into the zone.

And spiritually that’s where we want to be. That’s what worship should do for you. Worship should be the place that you shut down the mind, where you rely upon your emotional resources but not your physical emotion. You only use physical emotion to prime the pump. When your spirit emotions kick in, you go to that place where you don’t care who’s watching you. You don’t know who’s here and you don’t ever want the worship to stop. You don’t want Church to end. You’re just here now. You get into the zone of the spirit realm of the emotions. You may be aware that I’m crying. All these people are watching me cry and snot’s coming out of my nose and I couldn’t care less. Well why couldn’t you care less? Because your spirit is dominating you. In the emotional realm your emotional spirit is crying. What are we talking about when it says to intercede to the point that we are grieved in the spirit or that we are interceding in the spirit? Or we are travailing in the spirit.

I can remember I was travailing at home and my wife came out and I’m just making terrible noises, crying and carrying on. And my wife said, “Are you alright?” And just as quick my fleshy mind and will gave her attention, and I said, “Honey, I’m fine” (then he cried) Because when she asked me the fleshly part just addressed that but it was shut down because my spirit man was travailing and there was no room for me to step outside of that spiritual realm, but to just yield to it. Just say, “Here I am Lord, use me. Use me any way you want.”

Our desire is to step into power, into the higher realms of power. And the only way we can do that is to learn to dominate our flesh by our spirit. Amen.

Question

There is in space and time, you can’t do anything about it. It will not be wiped from your memory banks till we get to heaven.

Question

Well Jesus gives us another verse, and in Ezekiel and other places it says, “I will remember your sins no more.” The only one capable of not remembering anything is God. And when we get to heaven, He will wipe that, because it’s all written in the books. And in the books of remembrance everything that happened to you is there. But it will not be eradicated or totally wiped out until we get to Glory. That doesn’t mean you don’t have victory over it. You are victorious. The flesh can’t use it to dominate you in any way. You’re not captive to it. I’m not held captive to sins. I used to have to struggle because the devil used to remind me of who I was before, but now that doesn’t work anymore. Now I know I’m worthy, I’m worthy to do what I do. And I know that only in worthiness can I get it done. You know, you have to have a certain amount of spiritual confidence and that only comes by knowing that you know that you know, that you’re delivered from it. But that knowledge only comes from your spirit man. And eventually your flesh man says it. That’s why Jesus says this, in the context of this teaching think about why He would say this, “Ye shall have what you say.” In terms of this teaching, what is He saying? He is saying that it’s in your spiritual realm, but boy oh boy when you make it come out of your flesh realm! You have the dominance. You’re free of it. Anybody get that? That’s the battle. The battle is, “Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.”  At some point hearing the word of God has to come out of your mouth. Because why? Your spirit man has taken dominance over your flesh man. And that’s what faith is. That’s why faith is NOW, and “Now faith is…” is the way it reads. Because we have to arrive at a point that we break through all space and time. What is God’s answer? His answer is that in eternity He’s already done it. And all you’re doing is calling it to remembrance down here that you need it. You know that scripture that says, “Store up your treasure in Heaven?” Well some people store up their treasure in Heaven and leave it up there. But God wants you to know that you can call it down and part of that treasure is what has God said about you. Every time I get a little shaky and the devil’s working on me, I go back to the prophesies spoken over me and I run those back through my mind because those prophesies are not bound by time. They’re not bound by the circumstances I’m standing in at the moment. I am free I am standing in, in the moment. All I have to do is reach into eternity and in eternity the Lord has said certain things to me and about me. And I reach over those and pull them down and I say this is what I’m walking in. They may say, you don’t have it now, but I say yeah, I’m walking in it now. Well you don’t see it now. Yeah I see it now. It’s mine right now. Right now and you can’t take it from me.

Question

What you said, is when the stress level comes up with the kids I respond and you are responding from your flesh man. And then you said this, “My spirit man doesn’t like it.” And then she says this, “And what do I do?” Well the “what do I do” didn’t come from her spirit man. The “what do I do” came from the flesh man. So the flesh man is saying, well “what do I do”? But the flesh man is actually (don’t take this personal because we all do it), the flesh man is always looking for a cop out. The flesh man is always looking to make it impossible to make it difficult, and to put the blame somewhere else. So he’s saying, “well God hasn’t given me the anointing for that.” Now, here’s what you have to do. When the flesh man messes up and the spirit man reminds you that he messes up, all you have to do is get busy real quick. What do you have to do? It’s a habit. Faith comes how? By hearing. And hearing how? By the Word of God. All you have to do is begin to hold the flesh man accountable by bringing the spirit man to bear down upon him. By this, it’s real simple. You just said some words you don’t want to say in a way that you  know was not what God wanted you to say, then you have to reach back and say, “What would the spirit man say?” And then, do what? Out of your own mouth apologize in the hearing of others in whom you are responsible to. And do what? Bear the burden, the brunt and the guilt of what you just did and the action of it. You keep doing that. You keep apologizing from the spirit realm and bring it into the flesh realm. Trust me, first it will get caught right after it comes out of your mouth. Then it’ll get caught right on your lips. Then it’ll get caught on your tongue. Then it’ll get caught on your tonsils. Then it’ll get caught down in back of your throat and it will stop getting out. That’s the only way to deal with that. The tongue is the hardest thing to bridle. But what we need to realize, is that that tongue, check this out. When it says that the tongue is the hardest thing to bridle, we need to realize that before the tongue fired off, your carnality, your carnal mind pumped it up. And that’s where we really got to go. Listen, if a husband apologized to the wife enough, after awhile he’s going to get sick of apologizing and he’s going to begin to be Michael Jackson and back peddling. Because you don’t want to do that. The flesh has to be programmed to do what the Spirit man wants him to do. Therefore if you have to humble yourself and admit your faults, the flesh doesn’t want to do that.

You know there are some people that it will take three days before they’d apologize for something. And some of them just will half way apologize. You know, I’m not sorry for what I did because you made me do it. But I am sorry that it affected you the way that it did. That’s crap. I want to apologize for the way you took it. Well, that’s garbage. What that is, that is a cop out of the flesh. What we really need to do is back up and whole hog bring humility. Take the lower seat, count the person as better than us and just get busy crushing the flesh. The flesh hates it, and if you just keep apologizing. Keep saying I was wrong, I shouldn’t have said that. Bring everybody into the room and say, “Forgive me. I am the spiritual head of this house. I shouldn’t have said that. Forgive me, I shouldn’t have talked like that.” You do that enough times and guess what, that circuitry will shut down, when you get ready to do that, it will say, “No, I’m not going there.” You’re not going there in the presence of these holy people. But you’ve got to go back and shut it down. But you have to realize that a lot of that is emotional residue. Those are old triggers, and mostly if you think about that, that’s the way you were talked to. That’s what you heard. That’s what you were brought up with. And you have to go back and kill that emotional residue. Well if not kill it, bind it up and pin it to the ground. You dog, you’ll not have life.

This last story. Brother Hagin said that if a guy had two Dobermans. And one was a good Doberman and one that was a bad Doberman. You take the good Doberman in the house and live with you and you just let him eat steaks and what ever, what would happen? He’d become healthy and happy and just become a wonderful dog. But if you had a bad dog, you take him out in the back yard and you put him on a short chain, and you drive a stake in the dog and you half way feed that animal, that animal is going to shrivel up and die. And that’s what we have to do with the flesh. Treat the bad dog like a dead dog. Kill that sucker.

We then stopped for the night, saying a prayer that we begin more and more to let our spirit man dominate.

Hoping that you  have a blessed night. We are having another major snow storm. I am believing, by faith, that spring will come.

Heather

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About Heather Marsten

Welcome to Heather's Blog. I'm looking forward to meeting you and checking out your sites. I just moved about nine years of material over from another blog site, Xanga, who may close down mid-July. At first I was disappointed to make the move because I had a lifetime membership at Xanga and had to spend weeks transferring posts. But now I'm thrilled. Already I've met new bloggers and read many new websites. Blogging is a wonderful way to expand my horizons and garner new ideas. I'm a happily married mom of three young adults. My husband and I are proud to watch our children grow and venture out into the world. My daughter is still in college but my two sons have graduated. One has a job and the other just graduated and is in the process of finding a job in his field, physics. Anyone know of any jobs out there? I'm proud of our children and love watching them grow and mature. They've become fine, compassionate, and loving people. Empty nest? Nah, I'm too busy to let an empty nest bother me. Not enough hours in the day. My husband and I enjoy quiet time together and I have many interests to pursue - one of which is blogging :D I am a born-again believer and love God. As you read this blog, you will discover that Bible studies thrill me. There is so much wisdom contained between the covers of the Bible and I am fortunate to sit under the teachings of a remarkable pastor, Pastor Don Moore. Members of our church (Living Word Chapel in West Hurley, New York) are encouraged to teach and there are visiting pastors who stop by our church, I also study the Bible on my own and love sharing what I learn. One other passion is writing. My current work in process is a memoir. A scene from my memoir was published in a book called: Heavenly Company: Entertaining Angels Unaware - an anthology of angelic encounters compiled by Cecil Murphy. I'm hoping my memoir will encourage other survivors of abuse. I grew up in a home filled with abuse, including incest. For most of my life I was searching for something that would fill the void of not being loved by my parents. I tried many ways to find that love -- therapy, relationships, occult studies, and keeping my life so filled I had no way to think about my past. It was only when I discovered God that I was able to put the pieces of my life back together and walk forward in a joyous life. My nickname - wondering has changed from wondering where the heck God was in my life, to wondering what incredible adventure is going to happen next. I hope you enjoy my site. Please say hi, share some thoughts, and ask questions. I look forward to meeting you and checking out your sites. Have a blessed day. Heather
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