Who’s in control? (part 2) by Pastor Don Moore

Monday, February 11, 2008

Who’s in control (Part 2) by Pastor Don

Part 1 link

Pastor Don continued, and did a demonstration. I am going to try and illustrate what the tape said:

And here’s the example that I gave you. If you remember, I had one person stand up as the physical fleshy person. Then I had another person behind them, that was the mind, the will and the emotions, and that represented the carnal person. And then next to them I lined up another person and I said that this is the Spirit man. Pastor Don pulled up volunteers to illustrate this (he pulled up a person to represent the carnal man, carnal mind, carnal will, carnal emotions, and then spirit man, spirit mind, spirit will, spirit emotions).

 He continued, see we have a problem. Modern psychology tells us we are a body and a soul. But that’s not right. Then we say things like we are a triune being. Yes, we can use that, but let’s get the real Biblical picture of it here.

So this is the carnal man (one of the people), but he has a spiritual counterpart. This is his spiritual man that lives inside the body. The spirit (another person) lives inside the body. The carnal man has a mind, will and emotions – the soul all in the fleshly body. If he dropped dead right now his mind would cease to think, his physical will (another person) would stop. There would be nothing to make him to eat a cheese Danish if he was dead, nothing to make him drink, nothing that could make him smoke, nothing to affect him if his physical willpower was dead in a casket in a grave. And this is emotions (another person), if the carnal man is dead he can’t get excited about anything. Nothing could move him.

Now, what we have then is a misunderstanding of the spiritual. It’s so clear in the scripture. In 1 Corinthians 15, it tells us that there is a spiritual body as well as a fleshly body, but we never think about that. There is a spiritual body. For example, if the carnal man died, his spirit man would exist. In the Bible would his spirit be able to think? Yes. The spirit has a mind doesn’t it? How about the Spirit of God, does it speak? Yes, of course. Does the Spirit of God think ideas? Yes, of course. What about the spirit of man? Yes, in every vision of John in Heaven he’s thinking thoughts, he’s asking questions. And when Isaiah is in Heaven before the throne in the Spirit, he said, I woke up, I was in the Spirit. Well, what happened in the Spirit? He said, I had to ask the angels some questions. Well that was his mind. This spirit has a mind. If his body is dead, it doesn’t cease to exist. He still thinks. Angels are spirits. Do they think? Yes. God is a Spirit. Does He think? Yes. The Holy Ghost is a spirit, does He think? Yes. Well this spirit body has a mind. Does the spirit body have a will? Yes. Of course it does. When you die and you come out of your body, if you are on the way to hell, the will says, “I don’t want to go there.” If you’re going to Heaven, the will says, “Yeah!!! I’m going to see grandma.” Well, why grandma? Well I just love her and I want to see her. Well what was that?  That was an expression of the will of the Spirit. The Spirit gets to heaven and says, “I want to go see the Throne of God.” Boom. The Spirit has a mind, a will. How about emotions? This is the one we don’t think. We think somehow our Spirit has no emotions. But the Spirit does have emotions. What does the Bible say? It says that the Holy Spirit, which is a spirit, can be grieved. It says the Joy of the Lord is my strength. Well, all of that attests to the fact that His Spirit can be happy or sad. Remember when God, who is Spirit, said to Moses, “Leave me now so that I can let my anger build up.” So God is a Spirit who can get angry.

And so we’ve missed it. Yeah, we forget that we have the carnal nature, a mind, a will, and emotions, all in the realm of the carnal being of man.  We have a Spirit being who exists. Now everybody intersperse (The people that Pastor Don pulled out of the Bible study moved around, interspersing.) weave in there together. They wove together and made one line. What do we have, we have the carnal man who has a spirit being (spirit man) in him. If the carnal man dies, they separate. Right now they are all together. We have a mind. Pastor Don put the flesh mind in front, because the Bible says that the natural comes first. Now then we have the mind, the will and the emotions (carnal ones). Now, here’s the problem. Here’s what has to happen to put the situation in order. What has to happen is when we are talking about being saved. Born again is a little different. The carnal man is not born again, until (He has the Spirit man put his hands on carnal man and force him down), the Spirit man dominates the flesh man. There are areas the carnal man is not fully born again in. Until the mind of the Spirit dominates the flesh of the spirit, it won’t happen. The spirit of the mind has to dominate the carnal mind. The carnal mind must be put down. And the will power, when the flesh rises up and says I’m going to do such and such, the spirit inside the man has to say, “No, I’m the spiritual will. I dominate you. You’ll do what you are told. No, you’ll not go there. No, you will not do that.” And the spirit will forces the carnal will down. And the same thing in the emotions, the emotions rise up. And the spirit man’s emotions say, “No, you’ll yield and be in subjection.” Until that happens in every area of our life, we are not in dominance and we are not laying hold of what God has established for us. We don’t have the Mind of Christ until the mind of the Spirit dominates the fleshly mind. We don’t have God’s will set up for us to do what is right until what? The Spirit willpower rises up and says, “You will do as I say.” And in the area of the emotions, until the Spirit emotions dominate. What do you praise God with? You can praise God with your physical flesh and your physical emotional realm, but there is a place where the Spirit emotions take over and take you into the realm of the Glory of Glories, of the Holy of Holies, and that is when the emotions, the mind and the will all have dominated the flesh man in every area.

There is an aspect of this that gives us a chance to understand some things. What about a person who has an abusive father, a father who abused them when they were 7, 8, 9, 10, 11? They come into the knowledge of Christ. They join the Church, they go through all of that and they are saved. But there is a hurt there because daddy abused them. That hurt just gnaws away at them until they reach a point where they yield to the Spirit of God who comes in and heals them of that hurt. Now here’s where we mess up, where we miss it. We think that that happens only in the realm of the emotions of the carnal or physical person. But here’s where it really happens.

We get born again. We go to the altar, we come to the Lord. We finish and we go, “I’ve got to forgive this person.” Where did that idea come from? It couldn’t have come from the flesh man because the flesh man is hurt and doesn’t want to forgive. So in the area of the realm of the flesh man, he doesn’t want to forgive anything. His will wants to get back at the person and his mind wants to figure out a crafty way to get back at him. His emotions are damaged, and he’s been abused. The Church is filled with abused people, so when they come to the Lord, they say, “Lord Jesus I believe in you for my salvation.” Boom, they’re saved. But guess what, they are not born again in the area of that abuse. Why, because their flesh man is still thinking, “Boy, I want to get him.” You know, “If I can’t get him, Lord, you get him.” “And if he’s in Heaven throw him out, and if he’s in hell, put him down at a lower level.” Come on, let’s tell the truth here. Because why, that flesh man is still hurting so bad.  So when they come to the altar and say, “My goodness, I want to give up my hurt. I want to forgive.” Well, that forgiveness didn’t come from the flesh man. The flesh man wasn’t prepared any wise to think about forgiving and walking in love. The flesh man is still in his vengeance mode or in his pain mode or in his victim mode. See, because the emotions can trick you and when you should be in one area it will put you in another and you can end up being the victim which means what? It means you are still getting hurt. You’re still getting beat up.

Remember in the beginning of the book of John, it says, “born of the Spirit, not of the will of man.” Not of the will of man or the will of the flesh, but born of God as John 1:13 says. Now God is a Spirit, and it says you must be born again, born of the Spirit and the Water. And that Water is the what? The Word. So here’s how the process works. The Word of God goes forth, saying that the only way to freedom is to forgive. The only way to healing is to forgive. That makes no sense to the carnal man. Let’s be honest. Someone hurts you, and you’re going to forgive them and you’re going to get healed as a result of it. That makes no sense to the carnal mind.

How about this one? I just finished writing a book called, Taking the Lower Seat. And one of the great principles of taking the lower seat is that Jesus said, “If you’ll take the lower seat, later on you’ll be exalted.” Now that makes no sense to the carnal man, because the carnal man says, “If there’s an opportunity for me to get the higher seat, I’m going to take it,” because the principle of moving from the lower seat to the higher seat is based upon availability and opportunity.  And the carnal mind is always looking at availability and says based on what I see, not based on faith, but based on what I see there aren’t that many seats at the head table. There are a limited number of seats at the head table. And then the carnal man sees the opportunity. There is nobody sitting down now, let me go and get my seat at the head table. Now what does Jesus say? Jesus says if you do that, then you might be in trouble because the master of the event or the affair, may come and say in front of everyone, “Hey, that’s not your seat.” You took advantage of opportunity. You took advantage of availability but guess what, it wasn’t decreed for you. So the master has said, “No, no, no, you can’t have the upper seat. You’ve got to go down to the lower seat.”

Now why is that so? Because the principles of God make no sense to the carnal mind. The Principle of God is based on two things, faith and saving. Faith says, “Huh, I would like to be sitting up there.” But I have faith in the Word of God. I have faith in God’s opportunity. And I have faith in God’s availability. And I have faith that He’s going to do it in His time, and He will set me up. Now the flesh doesn’t change. The flesh still wants to sit at the head table. And God doesn’t say that there’s anything wrong with that. He says, if you want to sit at the head table, do it My way. Believe me by faith that if you’ll sit in the lower seat, in due time I will exalt you. Now the mind can’t figure that out. That principle is foreign to the human mind. It’s just as foreign as “Call those things which be not as though they were.” You can’t wrap your brain around that.

So how are you going to get the principle that we are going to get born again in the area of our hurts? I’m hurt. I have all these hurts and I need these hurts to be addressed. My daddy abused me and I need to get healed. And so, what do we do? We come to Jesus. We hear the Word and the Word says a principle that we cannot intellectually grasp, that if you will forgive him, I will heal you. We can’t wrap our minds around that. We have to do that by faith. The only way you can do it is by telling yourself, “I believe God said it, He knows what’s best. It’s His principles. His principles have always worked before. Therefore I’m going to forgive daddy for what he did to me based on the principle of faith.”

Now trust me when I tell you this. You couldn’t have thought about that on your own. You couldn’t have dreamed that up on your own. That had to be born of the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God had to introduce that to the spirit of the man, in his mind, his will, and his emotions. Did you get that? So God introduces the concept of: if you will forgive him, I will forgive you. If you will forgive him, I will heal you. If you will forgive him, I will exalt you. If you will forgive him, I will trust you with more power, and I will make available to you the seat at the head table.

Now where does that occur? It can’t occur in your flesh. It had to come in your spirit. You’re sitting in church when you hear it and something happens on the inside of you. You begin to cry tears. Those tears are not coming from the emotional man until after the Spirit emotion said, “This is the way, walk ye in it. Yield to this.” And how do I know? Because time and time again, after people have prayed a prayer of forgiveness for someone else, they go away and the thought comes back to them, “How can I possibly forgive them?” And where is that thought? In the carnal man. The carnal man still hasn’t done it, but in their heart they state, “No, I forgave them. I forgave them Wednesday at 11:00 at church at the altar. I did it, and I’m going to stay with it.” Then three weeks go by. They’re thinking about daddy. And that old emotional man tries to rise up again and they say, what, “No, I forgave them three weeks ago at church. Then, they’re going through their life a year later they go, “No, no, no, I’m cool with that. I haven’t thought about that old knuckle head. I haven’t thought about him in a long time. I’m healed of that situation.” And they go years and years and years, “I’m healed of that situation.” But guess what, they go to a wedding of their children’s children and at the wedding they hear a story about somebody who’s been abused or something, and the next thing they know, they’re crying tears. And then they ask the question, “Am I crying now because that wound was not healed? Or am I crying because there is emotional residue still stored in my carnal man, in the emotional carnal man? Or did you not really forgive him?”

And we go through this mental dance over and over again, not realizing, wait a minute, in my spirit man where it really matters I’m born again, I surrendered that to the Lord. I am healed of that thing. That remembrance is what is stored up in the carnal nature of my being. In the carnal nature of my being there’s some stuff that is residual, that’s just back there in the memory banks. It doesn’t mean I’m not healed of it. It doesn’t mean that I’m not born again of it. But sometimes it rises up and the old man just wants to put me back there because of his misery and his lost innocence.

Don’t say that forgiveness is not what you’re ever going to do. That way you’ll never, never walk free of some of the things that have happened in your life. That’s not what’s important. What’s important is that your spirit man dominates you in the realm, in that area, and has bound up the strong man and says, “No, no, no, no, no, no. You will not destroy what I am planning to do tomorrow because you are trying to take me back to yesterday.” I’m telling you, if you get a hold of this it will set you free. Because so many people in the Church are trying to move ahead, and they can’t move ahead and they’re thinking that it’s them. They’re thinking, “Well I must still be a real problem. I didn’t get free.” But no, they did. They just don’t know where the battle lies. And the battle is that they have to loose their spirit to dominate their flesh man.

Questions began being asked at this point. I will share the questions and the responses tomorrow. This was an intense Bible study for me.

Hoping your day is blessed. I will try to get to your sites tomorrow. We had a major power outage and our battery backup malfunctioned – we ended up having to call in an electrician to bypass the backup system. And I have to share this computer with others. Fortunately we now have light and heat – something we didn’t have last night on one of the colder nights of the year.



About Heather Marsten

Welcome to Heather's Blog. I'm looking forward to meeting you and checking out your sites. I just moved about nine years of material over from another blog site, Xanga, who may close down mid-July. At first I was disappointed to make the move because I had a lifetime membership at Xanga and had to spend weeks transferring posts. But now I'm thrilled. Already I've met new bloggers and read many new websites. Blogging is a wonderful way to expand my horizons and garner new ideas. I'm a happily married mom of three young adults. My husband and I are proud to watch our children grow and venture out into the world. My daughter is still in college but my two sons have graduated. One has a job and the other just graduated and is in the process of finding a job in his field, physics. Anyone know of any jobs out there? I'm proud of our children and love watching them grow and mature. They've become fine, compassionate, and loving people. Empty nest? Nah, I'm too busy to let an empty nest bother me. Not enough hours in the day. My husband and I enjoy quiet time together and I have many interests to pursue - one of which is blogging :D I am a born-again believer and love God. As you read this blog, you will discover that Bible studies thrill me. There is so much wisdom contained between the covers of the Bible and I am fortunate to sit under the teachings of a remarkable pastor, Pastor Don Moore. Members of our church (Living Word Chapel in West Hurley, New York) are encouraged to teach and there are visiting pastors who stop by our church, I also study the Bible on my own and love sharing what I learn. One other passion is writing. My current work in process is a memoir. A scene from my memoir was published in a book called: Heavenly Company: Entertaining Angels Unaware - an anthology of angelic encounters compiled by Cecil Murphy. I'm hoping my memoir will encourage other survivors of abuse. I grew up in a home filled with abuse, including incest. For most of my life I was searching for something that would fill the void of not being loved by my parents. I tried many ways to find that love -- therapy, relationships, occult studies, and keeping my life so filled I had no way to think about my past. It was only when I discovered God that I was able to put the pieces of my life back together and walk forward in a joyous life. My nickname - wondering has changed from wondering where the heck God was in my life, to wondering what incredible adventure is going to happen next. I hope you enjoy my site. Please say hi, share some thoughts, and ask questions. I look forward to meeting you and checking out your sites. Have a blessed day. Heather
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One Response to Who’s in control? (part 2) by Pastor Don Moore

  1. Pingback: Who’s in control? Part 3 – questions from Bible study students – by Pastor Don Moore | Heather's Blog

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